4,537 Comments for Pennhurst State School

Hmm... Speaking of Zing...

Dang you, Weebs! 8`-) I even scrolled back to see if there was a comment by someone named "lol"!!!!! 8`-)

Just a quick note - hypocrite is spelled with a "y" and not an "i". I find it best when calling someone a name to try to make sure it's spelled correctly or it sort of loses its zing. :-(

To answer your question, yes, the way I work with my clients is by giving them correct information, not letting them be confused by receiving incorrect or garbled information, and making sure that they are physically safe. Some people think that dealing in facts, telling the truth, and keeping people safe is a good thing, but, as they say, there's no accounting for taste.

As far as the part above about the rugs and the chair, that's not opinion, it's actually data-based factual information. I currently work as a risk management liaison and my job is to make sure folks are as safe as they can be without having any freedoms restricted unnecessarily (i.e., for any but reasons of safety). We have to do a lot of reading on furniture, lighting, rugs, etc., and keep up with the current research and best practices on safety, so I would have to say that this part is true and you could probably even take it to the bank.

As far as my personal opinion of spider girl, yes, I did get a tad testy with the child. She did have a lot of unique things to say, so my bad for sounding like I didn't support her and her fascinating comments wholeheartedly. That probably does indeed make me a hypocrite. As I am sure you have figured now, I've been called a lot worse. :-)

You are totally correct. But if we try understand how this happened then we will may acquire the tools to keep it from happening again.

The government actually has released a lot of information. It is not an exaggeration to say that there are literally tons of accessible paperwork concerning Pennhurst. This was one of the three or four most famous court cases in my field (MR/DD/II). We had to memorize large chunks of the court information for graduate school back in the 80s (the Pennhurst court case actually occurred in the early 80's). Everyone in my field knows what "Youngberg v. Romeo" means. I am well familiar with Pennhurst, and even worked as a consultant for a corporation that is named after the court case.

A lot of bad things happened at Pennhurst but a lot of good things happened there. I know some people who worked there and I know some of the people who were involved in the lawsuit to have the place shut down. There is plenty of paperwork on this that is easy to locate, and it documents both the good and the bad. If you need any references let me know and I can find you info on both sides of the story. Or you can do a quick web check. It's always easier to find negative info (like with anything), but there's a lot of positive information out there as well. Many parents loved the place and were distraught when it closed. Other parents were thrilled and still celebrate the closure.

You are also giving more credit to some of the current facilities than they deserve for their care. As was the case in the past, facilities today do only as well as they are funded and as well as they are surveyed.

Well, actually I started in the field in 1972 when a lot of this WAS going on. I was 16 and started out as a volunteer in a day treatment center for emotionally disturbed pre-school children. I am really old. Kind of like dirt. :-)

I hope you haven't for one second read my comments to mean that there wasn't abuse back then and that there isn't abuse now. As in right now today. Both in large facilities and in the community.

My point is and has always been that people shouldn't make assumptions about what they have read or heard, because they'll never get all the info and because the info is slanted to whichever of us is relaying it to you - whether that's me or whether it's someone else. I am asking you to look at a lot of different people's experiences, remember that this was a different place and time, remember that we shouldn't be single-handedly blaming staff or families or the people who lived here or the doctors or the legislators but look at the culture that created and accepted this. That was all of us, including me. Don't judge yesterday's actions by today's standards. Don't assume that people always did what they did because there was a vendetta or personal dislike or there was ill intent.

Let me say it again - conditions were terrible at times in many of these places. In some places they were rotten. In some places they were horrible. However, the sad irony is that people who ran these places were well aware of it at the time and constantly asked for help (i.e., more money) but didn't get it. I can show you state publications from the 1950s with the states actually documenting and showing how bad their facilities were with full page photos of putting two children in one crib in a room full of 45 cribs, and 1/2 a dozen of the cribs had two children because there weren't enough beds. The facilities sent yearly reports to their legislatures showing how decayed the facilities were, how overcrowded they were, how little money they had for the basics, and still nothing happened until the courts got involved in the 1970s and forced the states to start putting money out for these people.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/docarelle/1955.jpg

So yes, bad things happened.

Let me say it again. Bad things happened. No one can deny it and no one wants to deny it.

But it seems that many folks are looking for someone to blame rather than trying to understand the whys and wherefores of what happened back then. Because what I am (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to impress on people is that we are three inches away from this happening again. Unless people understand how things got so screwed up in the first place, it can and will happen again.

But people need to stop pretending that the problems only occurred in another era and were the result of bad people rather than the result of a combination of bad circumstances. It was the result of bad systems and a culture with different priorities. As soon as the voters get a pinched belt they start voting against the type of programs that keep people at home and in the community where they belong, and push them back to (cheaper) congregate living facilities because that's what happens when budgets are tight and when people don't understand that you and I are the people who control the legislature that control the budget that dictates how these people will live.

I am saying let's quit chucking stones at the staff who worked here and start figuring this out so we can make life right for these folks. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

And the most riveting discussion over photo award goes to.... lol

Danny girl, I would have reposted to your comment earlier, but i had to get some stitches on my hand. For I am making a new soapbox for Lynne. You are so right..What does she know of the days of yore? Your slamming the wrong person kiddo. She knows her Stuff. If I was on my deathbed I would want her at my side. She has no control of how it use to be."according to your story from a friend of a friend". I know nothing of the goings in in these Hospitals, nor do I come here and slam someone that lives,eats,sleeps 25 hrs. a day for other people.She cares, more than any of us know. Can you imagine nights she wonders what more she could have done. In other peoples hearts they all know she truly did her best. All I want to ask of you, is to walk a mile in her shoes. "you cant handle the truth".

This is one of the most beautiful photos I've ever seen: the design, the colors, the contrast of smooth and peeling paint, the contrast of the barren top of the photo and the various details of the bottom. I love it. As to the chair- at Belchertown State School's K Building, we had chairs that looked like that. They were made of tough plastic and they were reversible. If you turned the chair upsidedown you could still sit on it. It was really two chairs in one. They came in several colors (gray, red, brown) and lined most of the walls of the dayhall.

Does anyone else noticed that the sinks are numbered? right above them. look!

That type of furniture has another safety advantage. It's heavy as hell, and unlikely to become a ballistic missle weapon during a snit.

I wonder...Is this how you treat your patients?

Honestly...dont give her the helmet...if she wants to bang her head let her. Why would you even keep reposting comments and rants like this when only a handful of people listen and you get upset at those who are just voicing their opinions and what they see? You are clearly a hipocrite...you think that you are always right because you work in a hospital nowadays..but not back then..and that you must let everyone know about how smart you are. I think you are childish because people voice what they see in these pictures...and then you yell at them and tell them your opinion. (which you obviously feel is full of facts and completely true) Maybe you should just let people think what they want to think, and ignore their comments huh?

Ok...So I want to start out by saying that my best friend's uncle was born in Pennhurst...and her grandma took him in when this place was shut down. He just passed away recently but there are many stories I have heard from her that her uncle has told her. I would like to first say to Lynne that you work in a hospital now..not back in the time of Pennhurst. Back then they didnt know about dissabilities and they didnt treat them like human beings in all cases. Sure some places did..but other didnt. You need to first put yourself back in these times and realize that they werent as educated as we are now today about people with dissabilities.

Secondly..I would like to let you know that her uncle (after being released from Pennhurst) didnt know how to read, write, walk, eat, or even go to the bathroom on his own. I can tell you honestly that he learned all of that from her grandmother when he was released. He informed us about how he was mistreated and abused. And was even put in a isolation room, sitting in his own waste, on a few occasions.

Up to the time of his death he was still afraid of people's touch. When a person came into their house that he didnt know..he would cowar and fall silent because of the tourture of Pennhurst.

I agree with you Lynne...In the sense that, yes, in these years people dont mistreat their patients. But I would like you to start thinking of what it was like then. You have stood on your soapbox and compared it to your experiences but what you must realize is that your experiences are not back in the times of Pennhurst.. when people were still ignorant to the disabled.

I know for a fact that people were abused here..from my friend's uncle. I wasnt entirely sure until now...but now i know.. and I thought that maybe someone should step up on their soapbox and try to enlighten you a little bit...

This scares me..

So I know personally a few of my friends came in here when they were younger. They had no idea what Pennhurst was.. since they were only 10. But i do remember them telling me about how they were knocking over pews in an abandoned church. And then I came across this page and showed them.. and they said that this theater was the very same "church."